Friday, December 07, 2007

More "Waiting on the Lord"

Frieda Fruitcake writes: This brother is waiting on the Lord for a job.
He doesn't know if is it God's will for him to work. In fact, he won't know for sure if it is God's will for him to work until he reaches retirement age, as the gift of unemployment may last for a "season", or for a lifetime.
But what he does know is that today he has this good gift, and he is content with it. He trusts that, if it is God's will, then God will bring a job to him in His perfect time. He doesn't have to do anything. Except maybe prepare to work. See what a smart tie and briefcase he has bought!
And now he is waiting.
Not for him to try to get ahead of God's timing by sending out a CV or signing up with a job agency! No, he knows that God is more than capable of bringing a job to him, if that is His will.
And in the meantime, he is just going to wait.
What faith! What trust!
Praise the Lord for wise brothers in Christ!


Anonymous Anonymous said...

I too commend this brother! (How rarely we get the opportunity to say the word BROTHER in the church today!)
He is obviously seeking first the Kingdom.
He knows that only then will all things, including a job, be given unto him.
And look how much time he has to contemplate the cross while he is unemployed!
Truly, the church today doesn't affirm the gift of unemployment while we wait for a job, enough.

6:30 AM  
Blogger Captain Sensible said...

Frieda Fruitcake writes:

Thank you, Anonymous, for your wise words.
I am concerned however that the gift of unemployment shouldn't in some way be seen as a lesser gift to that of employment.
Those gifted with unemployment should be affirmed in their unemployment. I mean, it's not as if the employed are going to receive a "well done, you finally got yourself a job then!" when they meet the Lord, is it?
This is the dangerous influence of our culture, where "waiting on the Lord to bring you your job" is seen as stupidity.
We bless their worldly, hell-bound souls!
No, the gift of unemployment and the gift of employment are equal, and Godly men and women would do well to burn any CVs they have, which are nothing more than paper idols!
I hope this newly discovered gift of unemployment becomes entrenched as quickly in the church as the gift of singleness has.
Who knows, God may then pour out His blessing of unemployment upon the church, and we will see increasing numbers of Christians with so much more time on their hands for undivided devotion to the Lord, unhindered by pesky work commitments!
Trust in the Lord (and the gift of social security) and He will provide for all your needs!
Praise the Lord!

7:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a post from a discussion on what advice about singleness and marriage do churches give, from the bulletin boards of Christian Connection, the UK's largest dating site.
It was posted by a woman on 5 November 2007, and is about All Souls Langham Place in central London.

'Yes it's a big church, so it has the resources - but it's in response to a growing disquiet at all levels that whilst there's lots of marriages, there's still a large number of single men and an even bigger group of single women (many of whom are foreign and come from/ will be returning to countries where there are virtually no single christian men to be found) - and an awful lot of unhappiness and distress being suffered through singleness within the church.

I'm not saying the ministry team's always hit the nail on the head (Rico Tice recently upset some - calling single men who believe '40 is the new 30', 'immature and selfish' for not considering the limited timespan of women's fertility (in response to a question on the topic at a recent special event) - anger which looks like it's going to be covered at another special event soon), but they are doing their best to deal with what at best is a very thorny issue - for singles & marrieds & those whose relationships are failing or failed.'

Note what she says about the large amount of 'unhappiness and distress being suffered in the church due to singleness'.

3:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Rico Tice recently upset some - calling single men who believe '40 is the new 30', 'immature and selfish' for not considering the limited timespan of women's fertility..."

Actually, what most men don't realize (and what science has only discovered this past decade), is that men's fertility timespan is limited as well. The older the man is, the lower the quality of his sperm, which means there is less chance that he will impregnate his partner, and greater chance of birth defects if he does. It's time Christian men learned of this. By waiting to get married and have children, they're endangering their chances of conceiving and the likelihood of having healthy children.

I've been on Christian dating sites, and I've had older men (around 50 years old) apply to me because I'm of child-bearing age (30). I've always declined politely, delicately addressing the aged difference, but what I'm really thinking (perhaps uncharitably) is:
"At 50, you've finally woken up and realized that you want children? You're 20 years older than I am, you're likely to live 5 years less than me... and you want to marry a young thing, have children with her, and then make her a widow? No thanks."

(I do realize that not all single 50-y.o. men have made it to that age by choice, just as I'm not a single 30-y.o. woman by choice. But those are my thoughts in the case of men who have simply dawdled over their lives, thinking they'd marry "at some point".)

I know that there are a lot of Christian men who have "been shot down" by Christian women, sometimes in very unChristianly ways. But they should be encouraged (by the church, by their Christian friends) to continue to try, to make that first move, to act as God intended man to act, as a leader. I've been around the single scene, I've spoken freely with both men and women about finding a spouse. And I can PROMISE every single man who has been shot down (maybe even numerous times) that there IS some woman interested in him. He just has to persist to find her.

The most unattractive man (by worldly standards) will be made attractive to a woman of God, if he is serious about God and serious about his faith.

1:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very good point anon.
Actually it amazes me that the woman who posted her comment on the other site, would not be supportive of the Pastor's comments.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!
Silly woman. She reminds me of the silly women that used to jump to Carolyn McCulley's defence and only want to affirm their miserable "gift" of singleness!

12:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well done on challenging older men. I always declined much older men, partly because I found their attention creepy. I've never fancied much older men anyway. The fact that they are older and never
married suggests a history of being
passive or avoidant, therefore
unmasculine, or of having sex before marriage therefore being
chronically demotivated. That's been my experience of looking for a Christian husband. I'm now 30 btw.

The Christian men who deliberately wait until they are 40 are being naive about women. Young women have tonnes of attention from all sorts and ages of men, so they don't have a big reason for preferring older men as partners. In any case marriage statistics show that the majority of marriages actually occur between people who don't have a very big age gap.

10:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re: Christian men being 'shot down' by Christian women in very 'un-Christian ways', well, take a look at the Christian Connection boards asap, because there is a guy on there ticking off
the other men for being rude to the women on there. A LOT of women
on there regularly complain that the men don't even reply to their first emails. It's a perfect illustration of the fact that too much choice makes them spoilt and lazy.

10:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re older men chasing younger women, it almost always seems to be a lose/lose situation: The men will continually get rejected, and the women that are closer to their age, and might actually accept them, don't get asked! Daft!

Re too much choice for Christian men, well, obviously the solution is to open up the competition for the women to the believing if not "churched" men in the world.
But it always distresses me to think of women initiating email contact anyway. If they are over 35, I do understand that they just wouldn't get any emails at all if they only waited for the Christian men to approach them, for the reasons stated above. So they end up initiating, and it hurts them terribly to be repeatedly ignored. It just shouldn't be happening. Women are meant to be responders, not initiators, in the romantic arena. And then they write about how terribly hurt they are that very few men respond. Of course they are! It's not their job to do this, they are not designed for it.
And the real irony of course is, it is a bad situation for the Christian men to be in. It sounds wonderful for them! Until you realise that they are flitting around, from female "friend" to female "friend", always "keeping their options open", always thinking someone "better" might come along (thank you contemporary Christianity for making both men and women believe in the "God's best" concept! Which for single Christian men of any age, probably means a woman of about 25 who looks like a porn star but carries a Bible! How often do women like that come along! And even if she did, would she be interested in them!), and basically they are spending the best years of their life chasing the wind. They are in a state of perpetual flux and they are missing out on so much and lagging behind their peers in the world. And really, is this a God-honouring use of their time? Emailing lots of different women, establishing lots of these meaningless "friendships" (which will no doubt evaporate should a real relationship happen) and running around from one social event to another? Really, the "finding of a wife" business should be done and dusted certainly by the time they reach 30. Then, having established a loving home environment, they can pour their energies into more worthwhile pursuits - loving their wives, encouraging and helping each other to grow in Christlikeness, establishing and raising a family, and reaching out to the world from the secure home base that God knows nearly every man needs.
Incidentally, there is of course an element of self-perpetuation in this. The single Christian men are not reaching out to their peers because deep down, their nature is inclined not to want the added competition! So they faff around with lots of female Christian "friends" instead of building real friendships with men in the world and being salt and light to them. So there are fewer and fewer men that come into church circles and the problem self-perpetuates.
All of which reminds me, who exactly is reaching out to men in the world?
Church leaders? No, they spend virtually all their time with other "churchy" people.
Married women? Hardly. Their focus is on women's and children's ministries, and it could be argued that it is not a good idea for them to have lots of male friends anyway.
Single women? No, they are cautioned against getting too involved with men in the world.
Single men? No, for the reasons stated previously.
Married men? They don't seem to do very much in this area. Their priorities are work, raising their own family, and they tend to see "church" business as being very much their wife's domain (bring on those numerous women's and children's ministries again!).
Hmm...what a mess we are in! And look at the fruit! Lots of unhappy barren single women, single men that don't want to grow up and who are wasting their lives, married men that are not taught or encouraged to reach out to other men, and church leaders that are running scared of unchurched people! About the only people that are fulfilled are the married women, but unless things change there are going to be fewer and fewer of these around, and a lot less children for them to put on ministries for!
We should not be afraid to challenge our church leaders unless we see that our churches are brimming with a wide representation of the community that surrounds them, with more and more people joining all the time, and unless we see that people in the church don't stay single very long but are soon married and raising their own families.
Otherwise, we need to question whether or not they are doing their job properly, and of course be willing to play our part too in building our local corporate Body. But how can we help them when we are seen as rebellious trouble-makers? Unless we are prepared to volunteer for women's and children's ministries, they don't want our help anyway! It would mean they'd have to leave their comfort zone, and they don't want to do that!!! (^^^^shudder^^^^)

2:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...a wide representation of the community that surrounds them, with more and more people joining all the time..."

Yes! And the way it should work is outreach to married men and they will then bring their wives and children; outreach to single men and they will marry and have children.
Either way - the answer is OUTREACH TO MEN!
So why are our churches not doing it?

5:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Why Christian Women Marry Muslim Men'

This is a very important article, about the large number of Christian women in western countries converting to Islam. I'm sure that the search for a masculine man who has the maturity to ask a woman out is behind this. Islam has a masculine image, Christianity does not. The answer to why some Christian women marry Muslim men is surely that these men come looking for them, and probably know that there are fewer men in churches, therefore let's marry Christian women to make converts. Getting female converts means getting mothers, and therefore more Muslim children.

So Christians must be forbidden from marrying members of other faiths. We must also pay far more attention to the fact that Muslim men are looking for Christian women to marry and convert.

All those Christian men who aren't asking women out are provoking desperate Christian women to date Muslim men. I know one very strong Christian woman, still unmarried, who dated a Muslim man. She said that of all her boyfriends (several of whom had been Christians), the Muslim man was the 'most godly', i.e.the best-behaved and most honourable.
Surely this is because there is less of a gender imbalance in Islam so he couldn't take her for granted.

11:21 AM  
Blogger Captain Sensible said...

Interesting article, thanks for sending the link.
I am not sure that it is possible to actually "forbid" anyone from marrying anyone, is it?
I do find the advice given in the article falls short: "If you know young Christians tempted to marry outside the faith, talk to them. Pray for them. And ask your church family for support."
Hmm, yes, but also they need to be doing something about the root cause ie. Why are there so few Christian men, and what are we going to do about it? I honestly don't feel that there is some God-ordained reason why Christianity in the UK is 70% female. (Officially it's 60%-ish, but I am not convinced by that.) Rather, it is a problem we have created, and I believe it is a problem that God wants us to act to resolve.

2:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I disagree that Muslim men have knowledge of the man shortage in the Christian church, and are deliberately looking for Christian women to convert. Muslim men are looking for what they consider to be "good" women, i.e. virgins. If you have a strong Christian woman who by outward appearances is living a strong, Christlike life--that will attract a Muslim man like a magnet. I met many Islamic men in grad school and at my first job. I remember one in particular, we were in the car on the way back from an event the class had attended, he was chauffering several female grad students, not just me. The other girls were laughing and talking and deliberately flirting with him. I remained silent in the back seat. Of all those women, I was the one he later chose to pursue. A Muslim man is allowed to marry a Christian woman even though she is of another faith, because it is expected that she will convert. You may not want to believe this, but there are such things as "paper" conversions where the woman converts to Islam, but remains a Christian in her heart. I know this happens because my friend who is a Christian from the Middle East told me about it. An honorable Muslim man who intends to marry you (and not all Muslim men are honorable!) will not try to lead you astray or get you to sleep with him before the wedding. So, I can understand why women would be interested in them.

5:37 PM  
Blogger Captain Sensible said...

"An honorable Muslim man who intends to marry you...will not try to lead you astray or get you to sleep with him before the wedding."

I am sure that's right, but nevertheless, there is still 2 Corinthians 6:14 to remember: Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers.
There are many men out there who are believers, who pray, who would describe themselves as Christian, but simply don't go to church because they believe it to be full of little old ladies or "hypocrites". They also don't understand the importance of going to church. They believe their faith in God is a personal issue and that trying to be a good person is all that is required of them.
They need to be helped and encouraged.
Unfortunately, "the church" seems unwilling/unable to do this, and would rather play silly games with children and organise events for women, so single Christian women, in my opinion, should be doing the helping and encouraging. It's actually what women were made to do anyway.
I would caution against getting involved with any man of any other religion, not because they are not "honourable", but because I think the Bible is quite clear on this.

12:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here we go again with another person who is deceived into thinking it is OK to marry a Muslim. Trust me, it is NOT. It can destroy the children. Your children will be OBLIGATED by the man to be raised Muslims, for it is part of their religion and culture to do so. How will it feel when you are forced to tell your children that Christ is not the Son of God, which Islam explicitly teaches in its Koran? Will you be fine with your Muslim daughters being forced to marry only a Muslim man?

I don't want to be harsh, but I am sick and tired of Christian women being deceived in some form or another of thinking it is not only OK to marry a Muslim, but better. I'm not saying this to be mean to you, but to HELP you. You don't know the first thing of how it destroyed ME, the child of a mixed Muslim/Catholic marriage. Ugh, Captain Sensible knows, he can tell you, I guess.

7:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Besides, if Muslim men are seeking to marry "good" women, i.e. virgins, why are they not seeking other Muslim women? The fact that they are pursuing Christian women makes me skeptical.

7:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Whoa Nellie! I did NOT say anything about marrying Muslim men. I said I could UNDERSTAND why some women would be attracted to them. I am tired of Evangelical Christians always questioning the motives of those who are not Evangelical. There are honourable people in other faiths. I'm NOT implying that their good deeds and attitudes will earn them their salvation. I'm not saying that Christian women should go ahead and marry them, either. I'm sorry you do not have a good relationship with your father, and that you feel you've had a bad life because you came from a mixed marriage. It's just that, like I said, I've been around lots of Muslims, and they aren't all bad people. We American girls used to talk in my office about how the Muslim men were so much manlier than the American men we knew. I still believe it's true. Feminism hasn't hit the Muslim world yet. Aren't so many of the ladies on here complaining because Christian men won't take the lead in dating/courtship? Well, it's unrealistic to expect the majority of single Christian women to remain single, celibate, and childless their entire lives because Christian men won't ask them out. Captain Sensible is absolutely right that the Church should do something NOW to address the root cause of this problem! Slandering the character of honourable Islamic men is not, in my opinion, a step in the right direction.

9:21 AM  
Blogger Captain Sensible said...

Sorry, I did mean to write another comment, and then I got distracted.
I hear what you are saying, Anonymous, and I understand your passion Shazia.
Anyway, moving on (because we have enough people to battle against already and we need to stick together!), I am not really sure what relevance feminism has in this discussion, as it seems to me to be a red herring that excuses cowardly behaviour on the part of Christian men.
Faulty doctrines, faulty "touchy-feely" attitudes, and a general lack of testosterone within contemporary Christianity has emasculated men, not feminism, in my opinion.
Anonymous, you are of course right to say that there are honourable men (and women) of all faiths.
But I particularly appreciate this point: "It's unrealistic to expect the majority of single Christian women to remain single, celibate, and childless their entire lives."
Yes, and why are they expected to do this? Because of false doctrines like the "gift of singleness" and its unholy spin-offs, and because our church leaders, and Christian men in general, have been affected by a spirit of fear that has made them scared of real men in the world. So they retreat into the less challenging world of women's and children's ministries, or do nothing much at all.
Absolutely shameful.

10:05 AM  

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