Frederica Mathewes Green: "Men and Church", investigating "Vanishing Male Syndrome"!
Captain Senisble writes: Many thanks to the reader that sent in the link to this very interesting article Men and Church. It begins: "In a time when churches of every description are faced with Vanishing Male Syndrome, men are showing up at Eastern Orthodox churches in numbers that, if not numerically impressive, are proportionately intriguing. This may be the only church which attracts and holds men in numbers equal to women...Rather than guess why this is, I emailed a hundred Orthodox men, most of whom joined the Church as adults. What do they think makes this church particularly attractive to men? Their responses, below, may spark some ideas for leaders in other churches, who are looking for ways to keep guys in the pews."
The responses are very revealing, in particular those that relate directly to our Lord Jesus Christ:
'What draws men to Orthodoxy is not simply that it’s challenging or mysterious. What draws them is the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the center of everything the Church does or says.
'In contrast to some other churches, “Orthodoxy offers a robust Jesus”...One contrasted this “robust” quality with “the feminized pictures of Jesus I grew up with…I’ve never had a male friend who would not have expended serious effort to avoid meeting someone who looked like that.” Though drawn to Jesus Christ as a teen, “I felt ashamed of this attraction, as if it were something a red-blooded American boy shouldn’t take that seriously, almost akin to playing with dolls.”
'A priest writes: “Christ in Orthodoxy is a militant, butt-kicking Jesus who takes Hell captive. Orthodox Jesus came to cast fire on the earth. (Males can relate to butt-kicking and fire-casting.) In Holy Baptism we pray for the newly-enlisted warriors of Christ, male and female, that they may ‘be kept ever warriors invincible.’
'After several years in Orthodoxy, one man found a service of Christmas carols in a Protestant church “shocking, even appalling.” Compared to the Orthodox hymns of Christ’s Nativity, "‘the little Lord Jesus asleep on the hay’ has almost nothing to do with the Eternal Logos entering irrevocably, inexorably, kenotically, silently yet heroically, into the fabric of created reality.”'
Read the rest here.
The responses are very revealing, in particular those that relate directly to our Lord Jesus Christ:
'What draws men to Orthodoxy is not simply that it’s challenging or mysterious. What draws them is the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the center of everything the Church does or says.
'In contrast to some other churches, “Orthodoxy offers a robust Jesus”...One contrasted this “robust” quality with “the feminized pictures of Jesus I grew up with…I’ve never had a male friend who would not have expended serious effort to avoid meeting someone who looked like that.” Though drawn to Jesus Christ as a teen, “I felt ashamed of this attraction, as if it were something a red-blooded American boy shouldn’t take that seriously, almost akin to playing with dolls.”
'A priest writes: “Christ in Orthodoxy is a militant, butt-kicking Jesus who takes Hell captive. Orthodox Jesus came to cast fire on the earth. (Males can relate to butt-kicking and fire-casting.) In Holy Baptism we pray for the newly-enlisted warriors of Christ, male and female, that they may ‘be kept ever warriors invincible.’
'After several years in Orthodoxy, one man found a service of Christmas carols in a Protestant church “shocking, even appalling.” Compared to the Orthodox hymns of Christ’s Nativity, "‘the little Lord Jesus asleep on the hay’ has almost nothing to do with the Eternal Logos entering irrevocably, inexorably, kenotically, silently yet heroically, into the fabric of created reality.”'
Read the rest here.
posted by Captain Sensible at 8:09 AM
2 Comments:
Frederica rocks!!!! Thanks for the excellent link.
greetings from the 'Eastern Church'
hi Captain
I am an Orthodox believer (Greek Orthodox church in Canada) and can tell you that in all Eastern Orthodox churches men literally are in control of the all the facets of the church. PLUS in our tradition men MUST marry if they want to become ordained priests. So all priests have wives and kids. In the protestant traditions ministers may get married but if they choose not to before being ordained they can go on being ministers of a church as I understand it. Charles Stanley for example in the US, a famous TV preacher (who also has stated in the past "if you have the desire to marry that does not mean God will grant that desire.") is not married. This is forbidden in our tradition.
Plus the posting is correct. Jesus is the All mighty KING OF KINDS not just your buddy paly mate friend from down the street.
I love my protestant, (traditional and evangelical) friends as well as my Catholic friends for we all service the same Christ who loves us and died for us to save us by his blood by faith (romans 3:23-24) but I must say I am baffled at many protestant "Jesus is your friend" sort of attitudes and almost (excuse me) effete presentations they have of him.
Christ the suffereing servant is done --when he comes back he will be the conquering King.
Honestly when was the last time you had a pastor read the description of Christ as he is in Revelation (fire and sword from his mouth) read out in Church?
In my local parish we had a 6 week series on this passage alone.
I want Christians of the protestant traditions, anglican, baptist, etc to get in touch with the Jesus who is your GOD. Bow down to him in fear in trembling --he is our beloved King and the Power of Heaven Iteslf.
I have a friend of mine who speaks with outmost respect when he mentions the Queen of England (I am in Canada remember she is the Queen of Canada too!) but Jesus is his "buddy" --"my pal JC" he likes to quipp.
I remind him Jesus is more more than a friend he is the living God--
and our God is a consuming fire.
Revelation 1:12-16
12
I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man,"[b]dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like BLAZING FIRE. 15
His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the SOUND OF RUSHING WATERS. 16In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a SHARP DOUBLE EDGED SWORD.
His face was LIKE THE SUN SHINING IN ALL ITS BRILLIANCE.
---
When I visted my friends church the women were in charge of EVERYTHING. Now dont get me wrong I think a woman can do whatever a man can do. The mayor of Athens right now is a very capable woman much loved by the city and my favorite politician of all time is Thatcher (hope that doesnt earn me any enemies on here!) but the men in this particular church were overly meek and seemed to not know what to do with themselves. They were actually embarrased to be in a house of God. At first I thought it had something to do the pastors sermon about leading a chaste life (no I am not pulling your leg) and thought perhaps these fellows had done stuff in their past they were being spiritually convicted of but I found out that they were all like that in this church.
After the service there was a youth bible study in which the girls lead the readings and the boys sat like fops looking at their fingers. when it was time to share favorite scriptures I pointed to a few of my own (the battle scriptures of David: you make my fingers to fight...) Well that got a rise out of one particular and attractive young lady. She did not like it and accused me of being a warmonger and "typical male". I turned to the other boys for support and got none. Soooo I looked her in the eye and said: "david was a friend of the Lord correct?" and she nodded knowing the scripture that said as much and then I said "and a warrior a fierce man of battle.."
She protested and I ignored her and continued: "he fought battles, held his dying mates in his hands on the battlefield and fought like a man, like a fighting mad Spartan! This too is a Chrisitan doctrine and truth."
Then I explained how Jesus would come back to earth as a king who would rule the nations WITH ROD OF IRON and asked her what she thought that meant.
By this time she realized I must by Jack's "orthodox friend" and smirkily commented: "oh you make Jesus to be some sort of Byzantine Ceasar." thinking that will 'shame me'
I said "yes, by all means and a terror of King he shall be to all who oppose Him when he sets up his throne here!" (cheeky troublemaker that I am) and then pointed out the Revelation scriptures abot Christ and the old testament prophecies of how the enemies faces would melt in their skulls when they would come against in the last days. The boys finally started coming around and agreeing!
Do you know what? She acted like she hated my guts and after the biblereading was over she came to me and asked me for a date. Men in the Western Church have to start INVADING their church as men and just well...being men. Trust me the women love men. They really do. Not quiet little church mice.
(The article connected to this post by frederica Metheews Green has a "men in leadership" paragraph about the orthodox church where it states that not only are men in charge because they like to lead but they are not made to feel as if its evil being male. This is very true. In the orthodox church, being a man has more do with --okay you are a man now act like one and we will respect you. Period.)
--
Also in orthodox cultures, parents and priests get actively involved in introducing sons and daughters to each other. I am barly 18 when I visted Greece last summer , the land of my parents, I would have my dads friends of friends show me pictures of their granddaughters and invite me to endless dinners to meet them. They would ask me two things:
1) are you single?
2) are you a Christian?
If you said yes to both then they assumed you wanted to get married.
I mean it that was it!
Im almost 19 now and plan on going back there to find a good Christian girl.
My own girlfriend of 2 years is a Canadian born girl of French-Canadian descent told me flat out "listen I want to get my OhD and only after words will think about marriage or children."
She is 18 and has just now gotten into the college of her choice.
She told me in no uncertain terms: "If you love me you will wait until I am finished school and we are both in our 30s so we can both be more mature and have more money saved up."
Do you think I am going to wait for her? Would you?
I'm thinking I'll find my girl and bring her back to Canada (of course I'll compromise and tell her we can winter in Greece on my grandparents land).
Im leaving after school finished in June...
George
An Orthodox brother of yours in the Lord
To all my protestant brethern: please please please get married!
Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, Copts we are all in the same body of Christ and must must go forth and multiply. Christianity does not just grow through missionary activity but via good birth rates!
PS I have a Orthodox Jewish friend who I have told about my plans to Greece and he confided in me (he is 20) "my parents are sending me to Israel to find a wife if I dont get married soon!"
PPS your man Luther was not like the modern thinkers in the Western Church today. There is another post on this site about what he thought of getting married and I think it should be made mandatory reading for every Western Church!
whew. that was a long post. hope you like it. Its true and I want my christian friends out there to get married and have lots of kids. At least 4 for each couple (my plan is for 5 but thats me).
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